Have you ever caught yourself falling prey to a logical fallacy? Our latest discussion takes you on an enlightening voyage through the deceptive world of cognitive errors, all sparked by our book club's riveting selection. Prepare to have your beliefs challenged and your perspectives broadened as we dissect the nuances of logical fallacies and their prevalence in everything from the nature vs. nurture debate to the rapidly evolving Web3 and NFT spaces.
Our vibrant conversation doesn't end at theoretical discussions; it extends into the personal realm of parenting and personal growth. We dive into how these fallacies shape our worldviews, with illuminating contributions from our guests who bring their own experiences with 'chauffeur knowledge' among influencers and the quest for substance in a sea of rehearsed rhetoric. Whether it's reflecting on controversial topics like cancel culture or the finer points of societal judgment, this episode promises a wealth of insight for anyone striving for self-awareness and open-mindedness.
To cap off, we share weekend musings and heartfelt stories that ground our exploration of fallacies in the reality of everyday life. From changes in our familial beliefs to the broader societal conflicts sparked by imposing lifestyles, we underscore the perpetual nature of learning and the importance of critical thinking in shaping our decisions. Join us on this intellectual odyssey as we navigate the noise of social media and popular opinion, armed with a sharper understanding of the cognitive fallacies that often lead us astray.
FYI OUTRO
Have you ever caught yourself falling prey to a logical fallacy? Our latest discussion takes you on an enlightening voyage through the deceptive world of cognitive errors, all sparked by our book club's riveting selection. Prepare to have your beliefs challenged and your perspectives broadened as we dissect the nuances of logical fallacies and their prevalence in everything from the nature vs. nurture debate to the rapidly evolving Web3 and NFT spaces.
Our vibrant conversation doesn't end at theoretical discussions; it extends into the personal realm of parenting and personal growth. We dive into how these fallacies shape our worldviews, with illuminating contributions from our guests who bring their own experiences with 'chauffeur knowledge' among influencers and the quest for substance in a sea of rehearsed rhetoric. Whether it's reflecting on controversial topics like cancel culture or the finer points of societal judgment, this episode promises a wealth of insight for anyone striving for self-awareness and open-mindedness.
To cap off, we share weekend musings and heartfelt stories that ground our exploration of fallacies in the reality of everyday life. From changes in our familial beliefs to the broader societal conflicts sparked by imposing lifestyles, we underscore the perpetual nature of learning and the importance of critical thinking in shaping our decisions. Join us on this intellectual odyssey as we navigate the noise of social media and popular opinion, armed with a sharper understanding of the cognitive fallacies that often lead us astray.
FYI OUTRO
Thank you. I'm trying to get the music playing, but something's messing up on my end. I don't know if you can hear it or not, but I don't know.
Speaker 2:I let the Twitter X-Bass music drop too soon. I apologize my friends. Hey, that's okay, we can rock right into it. I know, ryan, you dig it. You like when the bass drops on that Twitter audio, don't you? You were waiting for the bass to drop. Oh man, how are you guys doing tonight? I know it's it's easter. What a crazy time to uh to try to get a space in. I apologize to everybody, but this, uh, this seemed to be able to catch a couple of you, you guys, you guys done with the, the festivities for the day.
Speaker 1:You guys have a little bit of time to hang out tonight, yet getting ryan back yeah, um, we, we were done earlier than I thought and I you know, if it was earlier for the space, I wouldn't have been able to make it. But, um, we wound up being able to make it I love it, bro.
Speaker 2:I was really looking forward to hearing your thoughts on these first few chapters and I'm glad we got a few of us here. Yeah, it's tough to find a time in my normal schedule, like you guys know, with my sports stuff this little season. But yeah, I spaced it with Easter. I did not have it on the forefront of my mind. I spaced it with Easter. I did not have it on the forefront of my mind, so it was a bit of juggling. But I think once we get past this weekend we should be back to some easy scheduling. But, sparky, did you have a chance to?
Speaker 1:get through the reading. I read a chunk and then got to a point where it was getting like too late and just wound up skimming through a lot of it. Um, simply because like this this type of book is, it's very easy to um read kind of the title of the chapter and chunks of it to understand what they're talking about. Because it's not like it's not like a book where they're trying to give you huge amounts of examples and go through a whole story of oh well, we went through this, been the story fallacy, right? Um, it's not going through.
Speaker 1:This whole anecdotal story of this is what I went through at this point in my life that made it so that I could do this. It's like this is what this is, avoid it, this is what that is, avoid it. And so it's very easy to kind of like hit through each section and kind of read a gist of what is going on and be like okay, I understand what they're talking about, move on to the next. Not that I'm saying I'm an expert in it, because I want to go back and fully read everything and digest it more, but at the end of the day, this type of book is good in the sense that you don't actually need to read every aspect of a chapter to grasp what it's talking about. Again, you're not going to be an expert, it is almost like a reference book in senses with that.
Speaker 2:I'm looking forward to that in the future. Like, oh man, what was that fallacy he was talking about? And I can just go to it like I don't need to read chapters 6 and 7 to understand 8. It's just like you can go right to that fallacy and read about it. Yeah, I like that. But he has mentioned a couple times where some of the chapters do make slight references to others. I like that. He has given me that preview. He's like in chapter 89. I'll talk a little bit more about that. So in very small senses there's some correlation between chapters, but really they're pretty separate, right sorry, I just wanted to make sure that the song was working.
Speaker 2:Keep going yeah, no, I, I was just, uh, essentially that was it. I wrapped up my point with yeah, like there, there is a tiny bit of like, oh, that that's similar to this other fallacy. But yeah, no, they're. They're all. You know, each chapter in and of itself is contained, and you can I mean, I was thinking about it with these spaces we could take each one of these fallacies and have really good discussions on each and every one of them. They're short little chapters. They're tiny, like yeah, I don't think we've had one that's more than four pages yet so far yeah, that's.
Speaker 1:That's the one thing that I I find is going to be a probably an issue with a book like this is not only could we spend an hour and a half to two hours talking about one fallacy, which will likely be the case for some of these things, um, there's, I feel like we're covering too many fallacies in one go to really dive into them on a on a grander scale, because despite the size of the chapter.
Speaker 2:That's what I was thinking too. It's like the the discussion could go so many places and we only need that many chapters to kick off the discussion for that fallacy. Yeah, I was thinking the same thing, like man. I'm reading a shit ton of good conversation starters right now and each chapter we're going past it's like, oh no, we could have spoken an hour on that. We could have spoken an hour on that, one Another hour, you know. So, yeah, short little chapters. It does make it a little bit tricky for timing, it for discussion with a book club, huh.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and again, it's difficult because if we are talking about, like there's I think I think we've covered in the course of this section um 12 different fallacies no, sorry, I was, I backtracked a bit.
Speaker 1:Let me go catch up to where we were um 18 different fallacies, or 7, 17, sorry, 17 different fallacies we've we've touched on in the course of this. So trying to dive into any one of them really and give your take on just all of them, like it's going to be hard for us, especially moving forward, to take everything that we've read, as small of amounted as it is, and and touch on what we think about those fallacies, because like, like you said, we could talk forever on one fallacy, but to try and dive into some of them, like there's some that I don't agree with, some of the things that he says in it, but I agree with the fallacy too, like there's, there's two sides of it and some of them, and then there's others where, like it's a complete, obvious thing that you know, even to myself I'm like I've been saying this shit for years and people don't fucking listen to me.
Speaker 2:So but there's like about that, sparky, I was like there are so many good takes you've had over the course of our book club where it's like you make such good points and this, this is a good reference point for you to be like now listen, guys, this isn't me saying this, this is a fallacy. Read about it in this chapter and you know what I mean. It's like it's a really good reference point for a lot of the really good logical sound points that you, that you make. So I I was curious to see if you were excited about that, that like, oh man, this is good stuff. Or it was interesting just now to hear you say that you disagreed with a little bit of it and of course I'm interested in what everyone has to say.
Speaker 2:But you love to question things and a lot of these chapters he's all about that and so a lot of this I feel like is really a good book for you to read. But then I was like but wait, sparky is a follower of this, so is he questioning this? Of course he is, and so I wanted to kind of get that was kind of. My big question for you is like are you following his advice in this book of? Like question everything and you're taking it to the extent of questioning him and his book telling you to question things. Have you had any of that with it?
Speaker 1:I mean, I, I have that thought process with everything in life, right, like, like, always have some sort of what's, what's the take on this and this book. It kind of falls into the like. He talks about the story versus the fact, right, or we talk about anecdotal versus like statistics, and he talks about that in this quite a bit, because it's about providing facts this, this is the fact, this is why this doesn't work. Blah, blah, blah. And a lot of these are based off of fact.
Speaker 1:It highly is like he, like he says this is his own, is as he says earlier on, I'm not, I'm not a brain neurologist or whatever. I don't have labs, I can't prove all this stuff, but at the end of the day, like this is these fallacies are things that he's he. It's a lot like what I do with the stuff that I spout, when I'm saying things in the sense of it's, life experience that you've had and things that you've interacted with multiple people who have experience on these topics and you're piecing together, um, your knowledge base into this. But the problem winds up being that it falls into kind of the um, not so much the overconfidence side of things that he speaks about, but, um, there's one that that I'm trying to scroll through right now. It's not so much confirmation bias, but which one was it?
Speaker 1:Availability bias. Is that one? No, there's. There's one that it kind of falls into where you're, you're, you're kind of setting it. Maybe it's the story bias You're, you're, you're creating, of setting. Maybe it's the story bias You're creating this story.
Speaker 2:You're not actually giving factual-based stuff because Was it the one about the news anchors?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I think that was it winds up being in kind, in, in kind of like some somewhat hindsight bias. Uh it's, it's a mixture of a few things, because he's feeding his own biases based off of the stuff that he's experienced. But at the same time, a lot of these things are pretty accurate with a lot, of, a lot of stuff that we do as a society that we should avoid. Um, the, the following, the flock, the, the, the whole, like sheep mentality bias or whatever you want to call it. Um, so many people fall into that that rut where it doesn't even have to be something that is factually based. I mean, we've seen people follow cults that commit mass suicide because they've been indoctrinated into shit like that. And it's a huge thing in society just in general, where people are so easily conscripted to some ideology, even if that ideology isn't based off of any kind of proof or factual basis, and that's the social proof thing. You know, we have so many instances in today's society that I could list off probably 20, if I really wanted to uh, instances of social proof being a major fallacy in our world, where people are literally falling in line with an idea because it's, it's the social norm or it's becoming prevalent in our, in our world. So we we fall into line with the it's. It's the fact, um, following any, it's the fact.
Speaker 1:Following any kind of I don't want to get too spicy with stuff, but like following any kind of political entity, you're doing it because it's the cool thing to do or he's the loudest speaking. But it kind of goes back to what he said, and I think it was the social one. Maybe it was a different one. Looking at the Nazi speech that somebody gave and was like like how, how? Yeah, it was in that exact chapter. He was like like he gave a speech and he, he basically was like like you know, whatever, whatever, how great are we? Whatever? And talking about how great Total War is, and everyone applauds with thunderous applause.
Speaker 1:But if you were to ask those same people outside of it, they would be like no, we don't agree with that at all. You're following what the crowd does and it's no different than clapping your hands. One person starts it and, generally speaking, everyone does it. It's the same reason why comedies. So there's a lot of stuff in this that is pretty factual, based, based off of just stuff you can see in day-to-day life, just stuff you can see in day-to-day life. But there are other things that it's again not really based off of statistical data and it does become a bit of things that sound amazing and are very good notes to take down for you to think critically and think clearer. But there are some things that still have some sort of issues with them that don't necessarily work the way he's saying or I don't necessarily agree with to some degree. So, yeah, I agree with to some degree. So, yeah, I question it to some degree.
Speaker 2:Well, I think he's doing a pretty good job of every now and then showing a little bit of personality, a little bit of humor and maybe I'm reading it wrong, maybe I'm totally off, but like, take for example this one line he says overcoming the hindsight bias is not easy. Studies have shown that people who are aware of it fall for it just as much as everyone else. So I'm very sorry, but you've just wasted your time reading this chapter and I cracked up. I was like man, this guy's kind of funny, or at least he's trying to be, or you know. So I wonder if there is a sense of like okay, this is a book. I've got to toss in a little bit of spice here, maybe a little bit of controversy, maybe shake it up so it's not just a boring fallacy book.
Speaker 2:I question that with a little bit of it. And if he does want to shake things up a little bit, because I was kind of like there's no way he can make this, you know, know, fun. But he surprised me there a little bit. I'm kind of I'm having fun going through this and I was kind of like there's no way he's gonna piss people off, but he's, I don't know, maybe he's I think he's gonna piss people off a little bit right.
Speaker 2:There's a little bit of that in there, like he's. He's got a little bit of that in there. He's got a little bit of I don't know. He's cheeky, as my mom would say.
Speaker 1:Well, if you follow any ideology that is currently popular in society right now, I think this book would piss you off If you're not open to change and you're not open to seeing the error of your ways.
Speaker 2:The content itself, however it would be written. Anyone writing this content it's it will piss off a lot of different people in a lot of different categories. But do you think there's a little bit more that he's even touching? He's trying to poke even some of us that were like, yeah, I knew this would piss me off and it's like, but no, not I don't know.
Speaker 1:I don't know, sorry, keep going. I keep interrupting. I think he is trying to piss people off in some degree because it's designed hang on, sorry, I've been dealing with this cough that I can't get rid of it's designed in some way to kind of challenge your way of thinking and make you see how problematic you are being in your own lifetime, in your own existence, because there's so many things in this that everybody does. It doesn't matter who you are, you are doing it, whether it's the social proof, whether it's the hindsight, whatever it is you, you were doing some of it, myself included.
Speaker 1:Um, and it it definitely is going to piss people off if they're reading it with some degree of um chip on their shoulder, or it again goes to the kind of the, the same mentality that that we have in society of the social proof, of being victims, like there's a huge push in society to play the victim all the time and, um, I feel like it's just one of those things that, um, people who read this book, who have that mentality, aren't going to see the instruction or the intelligence that it's trying to to give off.
Speaker 1:They're going to take it as as its victim, shaming them or whatever. Um, it's just one of those things that like again, it is it. When I first started reading it I wasn't so sure about how much it would be about critical thinking, but it really is about critical thinking because it's stripping you down to the base thoughts of things so you literally could take everything in your life that you hold dear, whatever it is your religion, your politics, any aspect of your life Not that I'm trying like single out those specific things, but you take recommending.
Speaker 2:He has said this several times now like take a look at your own stuff and and yeah tear it apart, yeah yeah, so it's.
Speaker 1:It's. It's literally trying to help you think, like, step outside of yourself to some degree and think about the things that you're following, the things that you agree with, the things that you hold dear, and kind of look at them critically and be like, wait a second, I fall under this fallacy for this one and that fallacy for that one, because I'm't realize what anecdotal means. But an anecdotal kind of statistic or whatever is. It's a, it's a made up statistic, it's something that somebody else has said that doesn't necessarily have any fact or anything behind it, and you're pulling anecdotal statistics, anecdotal data that have absolutely no backing to them and they try and put them as if they're fact. And I think that's one of the fallacies that he specifies more in this again, I can't remember because there were so many that we touched on. But basically, like, if you're, if you're trying to push forward this, this anecdotal data, and you're not trying to push forward the actual scientific statistics, you're not really giving a good representation of the facts helping prove your case. And we end up doing that a lot more, especially in the social things, the social proof. Once people start building a following behind a specific ideology, it becomes highly anecdotal and you're not actually putting any statistics and facts behind it, and it winds up being a thing where we don't want to be proved wrong. So we double down on the anecdotal inferences in life, uh, or instances in life, and so we, we, we, we try and hold onto that because we can't. We can't be um, we can't be wrong, we have to be right in our thing, which ends up being partially somewhat to do with the sunken cost fallacy. You've spent so much of your existence on this identity, on this belief, on this ideology, that you feel like you have to continue with it, because why else would I have spent as much time on it? But at the end of the day, if you can't see how fucking stupid it is, then that's your. That ends up being a problem, and that's where this book is trying to help with that. So this is this is where I think there's some great things in in reading books like this. I think there's some great things in reading books like this. I think a lot of people could benefit from it. I just I don't know. There's a lot to catch up on.
Speaker 1:The one that I don't really necessarily agree with is the swimmer's body illusion.
Speaker 1:I don't necessarily agree with it, because there is a lot of nature versus nurture sort of stuff out there in the world and there's instances where there are people who are they have really good genetics, but the nature that they were in or the nurture that they were in provided an environment where those that nature that was built into them didn't come to fruition, whereas the other side of things there was people who were born with problems or whatever you want to call them, because of their, their nature, but they were in a better in nurture environment that they.
Speaker 1:They completely blew out of it and, like he, he uses the example of supermodels and how, like, if you're not born naturally beautiful, you're never going to be a model, which isn't entirely true. I mean, to some degree they use models to make ugly people and I apologize if people take offense to this, but this is just what he says in the book but make people who aren't necessarily attractive, make them feel like if they use cosmetics they're going to become attractive. But that would be like saying that someone who's overweight can't and he says this too Someone who's overweight can't lose weight because it's built into them that they're going to be like this and trying all that stuff isn't going to really like. You can't go swimming because swimmers are innately built like that, whereas I've seen people who were, you know as as overweight they were ugly in essence.
Speaker 2:They didn't look really necessarily attractive there wasn't a huge dramatic transformations, bro, I, I did right so have they lose tons of weight. I was like yo, I've seen some amazing transformations that defy all odds. So right.
Speaker 1:So you see people who are huge and fat and they lose a lot of weight and then they become like, stunning, like, and there's no makeup involved or anything like that and it's because of how it changes their features and makes them. But they were overweight their whole life, basically, and to say that that's like their nature is completely different, like they were born this way, they were born to be fat. I'm not trying to, like, bring this about a fat topic per se, say, but there's so many instances of things like this where, like even people who are like they, they found the, the psycho gene or whatever you want to call it, the gene that basically determines your, your predisposed pre.
Speaker 1:I can't predispose, predisposed dispositioned yeah, but it's pre predisposed there. It is predisposed to um be a murderer, basically based off of this gene. But they found that people who are in the proper nurturing environments don't necessarily become that um, so again, the nature versus nurture thing does have some degree of of uh bearing on that. Um, you take the same person and you put them in an environment of an abusive family versus someone who's not an abusive family like it. What do you think is going to happen to them? Um, they're going to change completely. They've even had people who were like twins at birth, that were adopted out to different families. They've grown up completely separate lives, even though they're basically the same person genetically, like completely different lives because of their different upbringings. So you know, I mean. I mean there's there's also a whole story on it on netflix between like you are what you eat, and they take twins and do that with them because twins are the closest genetic matches out there. Um, like identical twins.
Speaker 1:Um, there's a lot of stuff that kind of takes this, this um, this whole swimmer's body illusion and doesn't make it so that it's a hundred percent accurate in what it's talking about.
Speaker 1:Um, but there is some degree of it that that does fall into play. Like you know, if you were born into a, a family, and you had good genetics and that sort of thing and you were attractive and all this stuff, like you do have certain things that are inherently like set up for you that you're going to be better at this, that or the other thing. But to some degree it's not entirely true. Like, does Harvard make you smarter? No, but does does going to harvard give you better jobs? Can you get into harvard if you're not one of these people? Who is smarter? Maybe, um, harvard itself doesn't make you smarter. You go. Getting into harvard technically means you you might be smarter than the average person, um, but it doesn't make you smarter going there. I don't know. It's a very interesting topic but, like I said, there's so many things in this that you could dive into and try and talk about for hours.
Speaker 2:This might very well be one of the more difficult books in terms of the book club that we do, where we kind of have people listening and maybe not everyone's reading the book and sometimes I feel like this little pressure that those that might not be reading it can get caught up and kind of this one. It's like how do we catch everyone up and how do we have a discussion about all these? Yeah, like you said, like what? 17, 18? And I'm going to get Ryan back up here, but it's really kind of difficult. It's like, hey, what? You just read these 50 pages. That's not a lot of pages for some of the books we've read, for this one that covers so many deep topics that you could dive into for hours, and I'm having a hard time like, oh, what do I want to talk about? Oh, what you just said. That sparks a thought that I remember I had. Oh, there's another one. This book does get you thinking. I really enjoy that.
Speaker 2:My fear here's my fear. I love the book, I love the topics. I agree with this mindset. I agree with, like, picking apart things, like questioning your beliefs, like I, I love this, this direction, I love how it's laid out, I love that he's going one fallacy by by one, and I love the titles. It's creative. Here's my fear. I want my kids to read something like this before they go out to be adults out in the real world. I I think this type of book, but is this one gonna be too harsh? Is it gonna like? That's my one fear. Is he kind of, is he a little mean with it, like I don't know?
Speaker 1:no, I I think sorry to interrupt.
Speaker 2:No, that's it. I was kind of just rambling until you're like no, no, no, here's my answer.
Speaker 1:I think a book like this is something that is needed for the younger generation, for the kids that are coming up right now, because there is a problem with society that we're. We're basically building up this, this weak, chin society that, like it's, they're designed to get offended by the smallest thing, that they fall into a lot of the fallacies that are in this book and create this environment that is just afraid to do anything, and so people aren't stepping up, they're not willing to take the reins, and I think it's basically killing our society. It's killing our at least more so like the Western world than it is for some of the European countries. But there's a lot of stuff that could be learned and improved upon by giving this to the younger generation and have them reading this, because this used to be how we taught people in school. Like I said, the whole critical thinking, the whole Socratic method, was about breaking things down and looking at them from a logistic standpoint as opposed to trying to push a narrative, and I feel like that's one of the things that we're doing. One of the fallacies in here is is you know, pushing the narrative? Um, he talks about it at some point, um, and you're trying to push this, this narrative, but it doesn't end up working because anecdotal anecdotal is where they talk about kind of pushing a narrative, because that's kind of what anecdotal tends to mean. Um, so he doesn't directly say it from my, from what I recall, but to some degree he does talk about it. But anyways, my point is, um, trying to push these narratives, uh, based off of these ideologies that are out there, and instead of taking the Socratic method and breaking things down, people see what they want to see, they, they, they're not seeing the, the actual, um, realistic tendencies of it.
Speaker 1:And again, going back to the first chapter, whatever you want to call it, the first fallacy of this, the survivorship thing, and talking about all the, all the successes that we have. Um, it goes beyond just the successes of things. Uh, it's, you know, you have one person screaming at the top of their lungs saying this is the way things are. So people tend to see that as the reality and they fall in line. So it becomes this, the survivorship fallacy, but mixed with the, the social proof fallacy, and then shit, just kind of snowballs, and all these fallacies are now falling together into these, these, as I said, weak chin societies.
Speaker 1:Um, it gets to a point where we now start creating cancel culture if someone speaks out against something because they have an opinion and they're using critical thinking on things. God forbid you use critical thinking and say something that offends someone. We've become a society that you can't have your own opinion anymore, but my opinion is more important than yours. Like, there's so many people out there right now pushing their uh, their narrative on people, but when someone speaks out against it, they're like, how dare you? That's not right. And it's like, well, your opinion isn't right either to me. But how, like, why does your opinion, uh, go above mine? It it doesn't, um, so like it's, it's, it's a weird fucking world and this type of thinking, this type of stuff. That's why I've been trying to push for it, to be honest. But it's, it's, uh, it's stuff that anyone in the younger generation would benefit from, um, whether they're college kids, high school kids even even older generation, all, any generation man, we all.
Speaker 2:It's so surprising to just be blasted with, like, all these fallacies and say, oh, yeah, yeah, I'm guilty there, ooh, yep, guilty, and it's just like, it's so healthy for me at least, right, I'm. I'm reading through this and I'm like this is good shit. It's like a brain, uh, morals slash tendencies, bootcamp of just like okay, and he says stuff like that, like, look at yourself in the mirror and then tell me what you think. After the swimmer's fallacy, right, and it's like uh, I, I, really, for me, this is this is healthy. I love it. I like the, the, the approach, but I'm also reading it from a sense of like. But I'm also reading it from a sense of like for my kids will this specific book. So I think my take at this moment again, we're only 50 pages in, but it's like I want my kids to read something. Kind of my goal already is I'm loving this for me. I want something, maybe, and if I can't find it, I'll be so happy to share this with my kids. You know, like I want them to read something that they can be like whoa, wait a minute. You've been telling me all these years I can do anything, dad, what the hell it's like? Well, let's just ask these questions. What's wrong with that? Let's ask these questions, that's it. Let's ask them. You know what I mean. And I think it's so healthy to have a healthy approach and realistic outlook on life. And just these, really, I love it. I love reading through these and I take it pretty personal and it hurts sometimes, but it's so good for me and I love it.
Speaker 2:And I'm coming from my childhood of being bound by this feeling of I know, I know, I know everything. It's so peaceful and such a better life for me at least to like now be able to say I don't know much. That feels better Because I used to know everything according to my beliefs, you know. And like picking apart things helps me just day to day. I like that feeling of like there's so much to learn today because I don't know everything and I'd like to learn to be more at peace with this crazy ass life that he's telling me in this book, like hey, you really don't have that much control.
Speaker 2:For some people that might be devastating. Like, no, I do. I'm the conqueror of my dreams. I'm the pilot of my ship and my boat, you know, like my plane, I couldn't think of the words. It can crush people. This type of book, you know and I.
Speaker 2:But at the same time, it's like for someone like me that might have grown up a touch too egotistical and a bit more narcissistic than you should, and I think this is so healthy to like. No, you like coming into grips with you, don't have all that control that that you thought you did. There's, there's this like piece of like you're telling me I can just kind of be normal and make mistakes. I don't have to be perfect and like. So I don't know. I just think it's so healthy and that's me, that's me. I can't even say that for others. So that's what's so good about getting some of your thoughts, sparky.
Speaker 2:We've kept Ryan quiet. Ryan, are you reading along with the book? Are you up to the 50 pages? And I'd love to start getting your thoughts as well, sparky, I I'm just so stoked on your thoughts as well, and it looks like ryan might be having connection issues, so I just wanted to make sure, uh, we're not ignoring you here, ryan. We're off to sparky. We're ready to talk about it. So, yeah, ryan, how? How are you with the book? Are you reading it? What are your initial thoughts so far?
Speaker 3:um, can you hear me? Yeah, all right, just making sure I've been having a little bluetooth connection there or something. Because we were just like felt like I was in grade school. I was you guys right, I was just like kind of decipher what you're saying. I'm like, is that me or is it the space? This is hilarious. And I tried to put up for about like two or three minutes because I heard Sparky go on and then you kind of started talking and once Panda started talking, I'm like, okay, it's definitely me. I need to step down. That was a trip. But no, I'm not really keeping up on this one. I am behind um. But, um, I definitely have been enjoying the takes that you guys have been sharing. I kind of was following along along with what you were speaking about. Uh, kind of just have a little perspective about it. I'm not going to speak too much about what I think it is.
Speaker 2:I am so excited, ryan, I can't wait for you to catch up because I'll tell you my thoughts, uh, with you as a, as a prominent book club member, the thoughts that I had while reading this, uh about, like, oh, what's ryan gonna think? There's some real like web three ish stuff that went on in my head. I don't know if that was with you, sparky. Also if, being in Web3 and NFT space, the amount of fallacies and it's impossible to not think about the Web3 scene, at least the Twitter scene, I imagine, if I spent time on Reddit, crypto Reddit or crypto whatever, I mean, imagine the thousands of discords out there. I'm like, I'm excited, ryan, to hear your takes of fallacies and Web3 stuff. So that's my little pitch to you too. I think you'll love it, bro, I really do. I think you'll read through this stuff and be like aha, that's so-and-so with this fallacy. Aha, that's a good project with this fallacy. Like I don't know, sparky, what do you think? Did that go through your head at all?
Speaker 1:I'll touch on it more after Ryan. We'll let Ryan talk some and then I'll go through my opinion on it.
Speaker 3:Oh no, that's kind of you, sir sparky. Um, and I was actually, as I was listening to you guys, um, I was thinking along those lines as well. I'm like, ah, this is fitting some of the scenarios and and scenes or or situations and some kind of like the mentality too, or the mindset of individuals. So it was really interesting to kind of put my thoughts into that point of what I was listening to you guys sharing and just from just my you know, tidbits of, I guess I would say that definitely there's quite a bit of it out there, for a lot of different reasons, I would have to say, and which, almost to me, there's two different ways. I was thinking at it too because it was like, well, yeah, but there a barriers when it comes to some things, when you do have those contacts or, like you know, because, like, sometimes you call, like, like, for instance, laying with you, you call a trucking company to get parts and stuff. You're talking to them for years and years, right, I'm just saying, like on a phone, no, no internet interaction, right, and just like to to like deal with that person and know that they're always a prompt there you can rely upon it, it's like. And then to find out it's just like this janitor that just picked up this you know message on your end when you happen to always call Sometimes the actors behind the scene or the knowledge behind it too.
Speaker 3:That's where I was going to understand for what I was reading in the first chapter. Well, actually, listen to. That was just a couple of thoughts I was thinking about. I just wanted to share there about how I was kind of playing a little bit of roles into it and then, yeah, I really was digging that. Take that Sparky was saying there towards the end there of his sharing there and just kind of like touching base on a lot of those aspects to the psychology points there and just kind of like touching base on a lot of those aspects to the psychology points that kind of stuck out. Um, maybe if you wanted to touch maybe a little more on that, I'd be, I'd be glad to hear some more your thoughts on that point that you were sharing there, sparky, but also with that Web3 similarities, what were your thoughts and how did that kind of come out to your perspective?
Speaker 1:Which point were you wanting me to touch on more? Or was it just the Web3?
Speaker 2:stuff. I think, ryan, my comment, before you go into this, might be similar to I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, ryan, but I was just about to say man, that could relate to Web3. As the consumer, or each consumer, there's so many different buyer personas within the quote-unquote consumer. There's the trader, there's the DJ and gambler, there's the trader, there's the deejay and gambler, there's the art collector, there's the uh community joiner, there you know. So that's a big.
Speaker 1:They're all confirmation biases to be honest.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, none of those are yeah I. So that that's kind of where my mind went was like yeah, what, what's the? That's a big question, ryan. What does that even mean? Sparky? What are you going to go with this? That's what? Sorry to jump in with that, but, ryan, that that's exactly what I thought you would kind of start leaning with. This book is like, oh my gosh, this is interesting about web three. And so, sparky, I'm also curious like where, where would you go with that question?
Speaker 1:well, if you look at web three and you look at, well, let's, let's just focus on nfts and forego the, the coin aspect of things, but so nfts in general. There's so many fallacies that fall into that as far as a consumer basis, and it's consumers in general, but the, the degens or whatever you want to call us the fallacies that we fall under. There's the clustering illusion, where people are seeing patterns and things, so they're falling for things there. How successful people were in, uh, like board ape and crypto punks and some of those big ones that they thought, oh, I'll make millions of dollars buying nfts and they end up losing. And then that falls into the sunk cost fallacy, where you've sunk so much money into this stuff.
Speaker 1:You're not gonna abandon it because you're so good, this is good, and then all of it just ties into like confirmation bias and authority bias and all these different things that literally he's saying here you have reciprocity that it falls into where, like, someone gifts you something, so you feel like you have to stick around and be a part of the community, or you won something, so, like you, you feel like you have to, uh, keep with that because you owe them or whatever social proof. You're sticking around with the, the community, because it's the cool thing to do and they're then, but it all winds up just being coping mechanisms to kind of build up that you're buying into something that's worthwhile and nobody's really looking at the sustainability aspect of these projects and and moving forward where they're going to go. So I find that, especially with nfts, that there's so many fallacies that we are sitting on to try and pump them up to in our own minds, that there's the hindsight bias that I'm speaking right now, that in hindsight it's it's you know we shouldn't have been doing this and it's it's great for me to say that. But there's also time and time again where, screwing me in the hindsight bias, I'm saying to people things that they should be listening to before it happens, and then it happens and I'm right, and you know I'm trying not to say I told you so, but you know he he talks about in the hindsight bias, like writing down all the examples where you predicted something and then it didn't go the way, like how many times do I predict something and it goes the way that I fucking expected? And I'm not trying to like again overconfidence myself in that instance, but there's so many things in this chapter that you have to then look at what are you doing in your life and where do you fall into these categories? And um, it's, it's, it's, it's crazy. Like even the it'll get better before it'll get worse before it gets better. Fallacy, like that's people think that, oh, the floor is going to go down, it's going to keep dropping, but it'll, it'll get better eventually. That's you know you're, you're tying in sunk cost fallacy with the the it'll get worse before it gets better. Fallacy.
Speaker 1:And like I even look at like a community that I got into and they had this marketing guy who literally fell into the same type of person that he talks about in the in the it'll get worse before it gets better. The consultant in that story. Uh, I ran into this guy in this community who was like. I'm a marketing genius. I know what I'm talking about because I've done marketing for web 2 for years. And I said to him, full on, your web 2 marketing isn't going to translate over to web 3, so whatever you think is going to be successful for you, it's not.
Speaker 1:And months later they posted in the discord. We were like we, we got rid of him because he wasn't being effective. And I'm like again told you so, like what the fuck? So there's so many instances that this stuff does fall into web three, but it's not just web three, and again it becomes sort of a like checklist of look at every aspect of your life. Web three is just one ideology that people are looking at. In this instance that we're trying to associate these things, which end up being a bit of a clustering illusion. You're trying to find patterns that are happening.
Speaker 2:But just as you were saying that, I was like, wow, I'm really reading this from different angles and I was like how do I shake my mind and like clear it of any preconceived notions, like that's the beauty I think of this book is it's going to be so difficult for me to make decisions. The same way, after reading through this book, because now I have, like you said, a checklist. It's like well, wait a minute, hold on, am I? Is this an illusion? Am I basing this up? Like I? I love that I'm.
Speaker 2:I have been given a checklist of like don't make a dumb ass choice, you know. Like that's. And and at the same time, it gives you leeway to where, if I do make the wrong choice, I make a mistake, like a lot of these fallacies. He's kind of giving you a little bit of leeway, like hey, again, all of us, even if you know about this fallacy, you will still fall victim to it, so don't worry. And like even the last page that I wrote, uh, read, he said case to raw. He's like with some of these, you, you can't control it all.
Speaker 2:That's one of the fallacies to think you can control illusion control yeah I'm loving it and as you continue to talk, I'm just I'm getting pretty hyped on the I I think of things as like little tools and like a quiver with my arrows in it, and I I like being able to load my, my quiver, with lots of arrows to use, and that's maybe the wrong thing to use, because these aren't really offensive tools. These are just, you know, they're not defensive either. It's just the understanding of what is the quiver, what are the arrows, and I don't know it's. I'm really thinking deep, I'm feeling smart, but at the same time, I'm feeling like a complete idiot while I'm reading through this, because it's like damn I. I guess that's been right in front of my face this whole time, hasn't it?
Speaker 1:well, one of the other. The other aspects that I didn't touch on with. This, too, is is a um, look at every spaces host that you see, or every space that's out there, the popular ones, the ones that you go around and listen to, whatever one it is, whether it's an influencer or whoever. Just just listen to the people speaking and then go read the show for knowledge, chapter, the number 16 where it basically says we can use from here on out chauffeur knowledge.
Speaker 1:That's so good, bro, I love that so don't take news anchor seriously is what it talks about, but basically it's like there are people out there who have chauffeur knowledge and ryan since you're not at this point, I'll explain it to a summarization is basically this professor had a speech that he went around and had a speech that he went around and did a lecture that he went around and did and his chauffeur had memorized it because he'd seen him do it like a hundred times. And so there was one day where he was like why don't I get up and do your lecture and then you can sit out in the crowd and take a break. And so they did it and the chauffeur crowd and take a break. And so they did it and the chauffeur like he did it perfectly, but then at the end someone asked him a question and he didn't have the answer because he doesn't know anything other than the shit that he's told to spout and that winds up being like majority of the influencers and, uh, people in in web three.
Speaker 1:But you know, in general you could look at any leader that's out there that is spouting something without any substantial backing to it. They're saying stuff to try and win you over so that you get this confirmation bias that this person knows what they're talking about. But at the end of the day, if you were to ask them hard questions and this goes back to why I ask hard questions, for for some of these leaders, if you go and ask them hard questions, they don't have a fucking answer because they, their knowledge is chauffeur based. Like they, they have nothing beyond what they're told to say or what they, what they've prepared, but outside of that they, like they have no way to have a conversation with you.
Speaker 1:And I don't know how many spaces I've been on where someone has like what do you think of this? And I give my hot take on it and they're like hmm, hmm. And that's their response. They don't have anything of substance to say because they don't have any knowledge behind it. But then they take everything that's been said in those spaces to build their chauffeur knowledge more, because they're trying to build up this overconfidence bias or whatever the fuck it was called, to make it seem like they're more intelligent and shit like that. It it's. It's literally fallacy after fallacy after fallacy on top of it, and it just like we're not even the entirety of the way through this book. And you can see how many of these fallacies we're falling uh pray to essentially on a on a day-to-day basis we're like one eighth the way through and it's like I've got the web three space figured out.
Speaker 2:Guys, don't worry, it's, it's, I've got it. We're gonna come across every single one. We're gonna be like, oh shit, web three, oh boy, don't you think it's gonna be scattered? We, you make such a good point, we're just barely into it yeah, it's.
Speaker 1:It's very interesting the, the stuff that I'm reading and obviously I didn't read everything and I've skimmed through the majority of stuff that I don't have a substantial backing from my own knowledge base, but the stuff that I've read through it's such an interesting thing. The story one too. They're talking about the. Which was that one? I'm trying to find it now. Story bias, that's what it's called. So the story bias one. They even reference a bridge collapse in the fucking thing.
Speaker 1:And you look at the bridge collapse that just happened because of the the ship crashing into the pillar, and the amount of stories that are surrounding that. Where there's no facts behind it, there's nothing to say. This is the exact cause. But people are blowing so much out of proportion and trying to build so much conspiracy theory about shit that it's not really focusing on what actually happened or the cause of it. They're trying to create this story about it.
Speaker 1:The story fallacy, the story bias that the more of a story you try and build around it, the more you take away from the actual cause and what could be problematic. It's just interesting how those two kind of correlate but how that kind of ties into so many avenues of life With, like the story bias, where we're building up a story or behind something but we don't actually look at what was actually done or what was actually said or whatever. Um, it's, it's crazy, and a lot of this stuff, a lot of these, these fallacies, I, I will say this with this stuff, a lot of these, these fallacies I, I will say this with, again, I've always said that I, I, what I say, take it with a grain of salt, because I don't have, um, any kind of degree or anything backing my opinion. I'm not, you know, the most intelligent or whatever you want to classify it, as I, as he says in this book, I don't have all all the higher-up stuff that you're looking for in somebody who's giving out this information.
Speaker 2:But in my opinion. But that's really smart, like you will say that honorably and humbly. Like I am not perfect, I don't know everything. Why would I say that? Like I loved that line. You did say something like that in there, right, like it's almost like yeah, he says it in the introduction I liked it.
Speaker 2:It's just like shame on you for thinking you know everything. You don't. I obviously didn't say it like that, but I, I like, I like that, I, I enjoy speaking to someone that is obviously knowledgeable. But they're like oh yeah, I don't know the answer, but I can get it for you. I'll trust that person instead of someone that will like bullshit and answer and they can't let their ego down to be like I don't know the perfect answer and they'll just I don't know yeah, yeah there's no types out there where it's just like, okay, I kind of can't take anything serious now right.
Speaker 1:So he he says here too, this is what you're talking about. He says please keep in mind three things as you peruse these pages. First, the list of fallacies in this book is not complete. Undoubtedly new ones will be discovered. Second, the majority of these errors are related to one another. They all tie together to some degree. Uh, this should come as no surprise. After all, the brain regions are linked. That's why, as we're going through this, you're seeing how many things kind of cross over, even with ones that he's maybe not be linking in the bottom, because he's showing a list of the ones that you should also look into. Um, he says, you know, the brain regions are linked. Neural projections travel from region to region in the brain. No, no area functions independently. And then this part is the part that ties in with what I said.
Speaker 1:Third, I am primarily a novelist and an entrepreneur, not a social scientist. I don't have my own lab where I can conduct experiments on cognitive errors, nor do I have a staff of researchers I can dispatch to scout for behavioral errors. In writing this book, I think of myself as a translator whose job it is to interpret and synthesize what I've read and learned to put into terms others can understand. My great respect goes to the researchers who, in recent decades, have uncovered these behavioral and cognitive errors. The success of this book is fundamentally a tribute to their research. I am enormously indebted to them, and that's that's what I'm trying to say. In not so eloquent of a way is, my knowledge comes from a lot of the shit that I've accumulated by reading things online, and in no way do I I claim to be an expert in it, and a lot of it is just my opinion on things. But what I was going to say was, in my opinion, on all this stuff, a lot of this stuff, that a lot of these fallacies, is what winds up leading to cancel culture, because people start like falling to majority of these fallacies and they aren't listening to what people are saying, they're not listening or seeing things that are being done in factual manner, and so they're canceling them because of something that they've tweeted or something that they said.
Speaker 1:Um, and even even you look at the, the, the song, baby, it's cold outside. We've we've canceled this, this song, because it was back in the 50s and it sounds very rapey in in terminology or whatever, but the gist of it is this girl is trying to um convince herself to leave, even though she wants to stay, and there's nothing really rapey about it. And so she's trying to make up excuses that she needs to leave, even though she knows full well she wants to stay and be with this guy, because promiscuity wasn't really a thing that was allowed back then. And so if you're looking at things from a critical thinking perspective, you can see where the two sides kind of come at each other and say, well, this sounds like it's he's trying to take advantage of her or she's, you know, but that's kind of like you have to be able to see both sides. But, like I'm saying, with the the all the fallacies that fall into people's mindsets, they don't see that. They just see the side that their their confirmation bias is pushing and their narrative is pushing. So they see it as this thing that they now have to cancel and it goes across the board.
Speaker 1:Um people canceling. Um people because of tweets, that they tweeted something that was controversial, um, it's like it's a fucking tweet and people are allowed to their opinions, but in today's society you can lose your entire fucking career over that shit. Like I understand if it was something very serious that you did and losing your career over it, like let's, let's cancel this person because of something that they said that we're not allowing because it doesn't fall into our, our um narrative. And again it goes back to what I said you're I. I'm allowed to think what I want, but you're not allowed to think what you want.
Speaker 1:Mentality that's kind of the mentality of the world right now is only my perspective is allowed, and that's not how the world works. You're not this sole proprietor of the free thinking world. You are an individual and 99 of society isn't going to agree with what you think. So we have to find it. We'll find a healthy medium in that. And again I go back to my point of I think this is where cancel culture is built off of, because people are just falling a trap, or whatever you want to call it, to all these fallacies and um not being able to think clearly. So I don't know, um, there's a lot of like. I'm trying not to get into some of the examples that I want to get into because they're controversial topics, but I'm I'm at a point in my life where I'm starting to I don't fucking care anymore.
Speaker 2:Have you read that? Have you read that quote? I it's honestly at one of those meme things. It might not be Keanu Reeves, I do love Keanu Reeves and so I'm going to give it to him. He said something like I'm kind of at the point in life where I just don't like to argue with people. So if someone tells me one plus one equals five, cool, cool, it was like the most keanu reeves thing to say. But I don't know, there is like power in that. You know what I mean of of just walking away, but I don't know, is that fallacy, you know?
Speaker 1:I bet we could pick that apart that is a fallacy because, again, coming back to the fact aspect of things like one plus one always equals two, like you're never gonna find another. The only other answer is a window, which is a funny joke that we used to do when I was in grade one, because if you take one and the one and put a plus between them and put the equal sign, you literally get a fucking window. It's like there's another one where two plus two equals fish and you just have two mirrored two and it becomes a fish. Um, but at the end of the day, those are jokes, they're not reality and factual. It's like your, your numbers are numbers. They can't be changed. You can't get, like you know, three divided by zero. What's that gonna be right?
Speaker 3:there's only one answer, like do you know a number yeah, I mean mathematically I mean, if you take the zero out, then you have a whole another mathematical equation well like, okay, so t two times zero is what zero?
Speaker 1:you get nothing. You can't multiply zero by itself, so two times one. What is that right?
Speaker 3:I think the universe just actually begs to differ. Because what happens when an atom splits, because of what reason you know? Like so there's mathematical things that happen on that molecular structure that we don't see. That was like the reason why is because I kind of got into a thing called numerology with it's basically where you take, there's no zeros, when you get to nine it goes to not ten, it goes to one one, so a small one, and then it continues like one, two, small two one, and then it keeps going and then you get up to 20, it would be 2, 1. Then 21 would be 2, little 2.
Speaker 3:So this is a whole other mathematical equation that nobody, even Einstein, all those guys didn't want people to know about. Cool stuff, really really cool stuff that I didn't want people to know about. Cool stuff, really really cool stuff that I didn't think about. Because if you use this and then break down the table periodical table of contents, how they use the mathematical equations to create the mineral tables you get a whole nother mineral table which actually puts in whole nother realms of minerals. So it's just, it's interesting because I I I fascinated by some of the things you were just talking about Haven't got to talk about that in a long time, but it just again it falls into.
Speaker 1:Is that something that's based in reality or is that just anecdotal something that someone made in reality? Or is that just anecdotal something that someone made up to try and upset the balance or upset the flow? Like one of the chapters, chapter four, if 50 million people say something's foolish, it's still foolish, doesn't make it fact, it doesn't make it right. It's. And that's where the social proof falls into is. There's so many things out there in reality in our society that people are pushing as if this is fact, when there's no fact behind it, there's no statistics behind it. They just made something up that is trying to push some sort of theory that isn't proven. And until you have something that's proven, based off of scientific data and all that stuff, it's it has to be proven on a grand scale, like multiple people have to be able to prove it off off many occasions from their own way of doing things, and that's why, like simple mathematics is proven throughout history, one plus one equals equals two. Two plus two equals four, like it goes down the line to the point of going up to whatever infinite number that you want to go to, in the sense that we've done it literally for centuries. It's even back in ancient Egypt like they. They've had basic mathematic. One plus one equals two, and it's very hard to refute that because there's so much data that's being provided and whether it's able to be um proven on a grand scale across many different instances. If one person can provide examples of it, it doesn't make it correct um, and again, this goes across for every aspect of things. Uh, I mean, I'm gonna if, if one of these people hears this or if one of these people is listening, and I'm gonna catch flack for it. But like, look at the flat earth society. Every single person in the flat earth society has a differing opinion on how the flat earth is and they can't explain things in simple terms because they have no scientific backing behind it. There was even some something where they're like, well, look at this video of this person flying alongside the, the ice wall in antarctica. It's like, yeah, and the critical thinking is, if you fly beside antarctica with the, the, the side of the, the ice wall to your left, antarctica is a fucking circle, so you're gonna constantly fly around an ice wall, so it's good, you're gonna think that there's an ice wall to your left. Antarctica is a fucking circle, so you're gonna constantly fly around an ice wall. So it's good, you're gonna think that there's an ice wall there, but in reality that's antarctica. It's an island. So critical thinking prevails in that instance and you know factual data that that's out there.
Speaker 1:You look at how many arguments that the flat earth theory tries to prove. That falls flat when you give actual scientific data behind it. Um, it just they. They can't explain stuff.
Speaker 1:I had a funny thought literally on my way home tonight from my parents place where I saw the sunset. I saw the shadow of um, because sometimes when the sun sets there's like a shadow of the mountain on the horizon that you can see in the sky. And I saw that in the sky tonight, the shadow of something, uh cascading across the sky where the light was being blocked. And I thought in my head how the fuck do flat earthers try to explain the sunset? Because in their flat disk world, where the sun rotates around this flat disk, it doesn't matter where you are on this flat disk. Literally the sun would be visible. It's just without a horizon. On a flat plane, you would see the sun at all times. It would be physically impossible to see some aspect of the sun, and it again it just falls apart. And the and I'm not trying to make this about flat earth, it was just you know something that I thought of and it kind of laughed.
Speaker 1:And again, all these fallacies make all like they. They fuel those things, they're, they're a lot of these conspiracy theories are out that are out there are filled with these fallacies. It's clustering illusion, it's social proof, it's sunk cost fallacy, it's confirmation bias, it's authority bias. It's like you can literally look at all these fallacies and see how these things fall apart because they're literally fueled by them. And once you start thinking clearly, you start to see that this it's a fucking joke.
Speaker 1:And unless you have something that's built with scientific backing and and proof and the people be like well, scientific is, yes, it is, because literally you could go and prove it yourself by doing the scientific method. It's hard to refute. If you could find a way to refute it by doing the same experiments with the same mathematical data, you would fall apart. So it's an interesting thing to have these conversations and see how shit like that just falls apart when you're looking at it from that perspective. Sorry, sassy came up, so I'd love to hear her speak on stuff. Maybe she's going to rip me into one for the stuff that I'm saying.
Speaker 2:Yeah, let's hear it. Sassy, Welcome. Thank you for being here. I'm sorry for the time changes. I just saw that you even asked in a comment. I was too late and I'm so glad you're here.
Speaker 2:Hopefully, hopefully, sassy, do we have you At any moment? You can unmute and join, maybe, maybe, maybe. Well, I do want to let everyone know this is a great time to let you know I am going to launch a giveaway. If you hop into the discord, I'm going to put it right into the book ideas public and I'm going to drop it. For just about three minutes from now it'll go off. So create giveaway. Hop into the book ideas public, make sure you enter that little giveaway and, uh, pretty good, pretty good chances tonight. Just a few of us. I'm so happy that you guys were able to. I know it's a holiday man, thanks for making the time to be here.
Speaker 2:You guys and Sassy, if you're listening and you can hear us, we can't hear you If you are unmuted, you might be rugging, but we can't wait to hear your thoughts on this book. I think this is a good one, even if we disagree with him with the book. Maybe it's a trick, maybe he's putting it in there on purpose to catch if we'll catch his fallacies. I think that's kind of the fun thing about a book like this is it's giving us and him a little bit of a chance to catch him on stuff, and maybe that's his point. He's even kind of questioned us on ourselves. Maybe he'll question his own book throughout and we are just scratching the surface just a few chapters in. So I'm excited to see how much he kind of questions his own line of thinking, or, if he has, has he?
Speaker 1:I don't know if he's really questioned his own line of thinking yet from what I've seen. I just wanted to say on the, I was looking back through the list and I saw the illusion of control, one again and it just made me think of how, as again, as a society, looking at the illusion of control and how much stuff we think we have control over, we read through that Russ book and there's stuff in that that's the illusion of control and, um, there's, there's so many aspects of some of these self-help books that are out there that try and push this illusion of control. But, like, how many times do you see someone, as he said, where there's like you know, I'm not washing this jersey because the team will do better, or I'm not shaving my beard for the playoffs because the team will do better. Like, this illusion of control that we create is quite comical in a lot of the things that we try to push yeah, agreed, agreed, go ahead, ryan I'm just trying to find this channel that you put that in.
Speaker 3:I don't see a channel.
Speaker 2:You know what. You know what that's? That's a. Okay I I only saw three participants, so we're gonna run two giveaways tonight. Sassy took the first one. I I'm going to drop another one in there. If you go to the PandaFam health community, it's the book ideas public channel at the very bottom. Let me tag you.
Speaker 3:All I see is suggested channels health and fitness channel.
Speaker 2:I just tagged you.
Speaker 3:Now I see it. It just popped up, I couldn't see it.
Speaker 2:Aha, aha, aha. I I apologize, maybe it was collapsed, uh, but no, I want to run another one.
Speaker 3:I collapsed it down and then uncollapsed it and it didn't do anything. I was like what the heck?
Speaker 2:so that was weird maybe, uh, maybe, maybe this is a slight force of of making everyone participate in the health community, so maybe I'll keep it going like this, just joking, but no, you can see it now though. Yeah, I think hold on here.
Speaker 2:No, maybe I'll put it in. Hmm, nah, that one's gotta be a pretty good one. I think it should show for everyone. But that makes me question, now that you said that. So let's just put it. Let's just put it in general, you guys. Even if it gets lost a few messages, it's just a few minutes for those that are here on the space. That's the better option, you guys. That way people will see it. Also, we don't have hundreds of messages going off. So you guys are listening. General, we're going to general. Hold on here, I'm building it. I'm building it. I'm just so happy it's a it holiday. A little late. I messed up scheduling. Thank you, guys for coming to the space. Where the hell? There it is. General. So I'm going to set this for three minutes from now. And general no one should miss that one. Vip listener. Boom, it is rocking in the general channel. We got another giveaway. So congrats, sassy, and thank you for letting us know that you're listening in and you're busy and we appreciate you so much.
Speaker 2:And I think, with this book, what's kind of cool is we will, you know, for next week we'll get another 50 pages and it's going to be really hard to not refer back to the first 50 pages. All of these fallacies will really build off of each other and some of them even make direct reference to each other. But just like Sparky was kind of saying how one rolls into another and gave really good examples just within the Web3 space, I think it's going to be really fun to start being able to say oh man, this one in chapter 82, you guys remember chapter 13? This kind of plays with this fallacy and similar line of thinking and a similar line of thinking. So I think, even if we missed, for example, dap tonight, I'm excited to hear what he has to say about the first 50 pages. I think next week we might hear some thoughts about previous chapters and I think that's a-okay.
Speaker 2:This is definitely not a nonfiction book. I do like—ooh, that was one of my comments I wanted to make. He made a fun little nod to nonfiction writing and he's like you know, without this fallacy we wouldn't have nonfiction books. So I do like how he kind of makes fun little like thank you nods to some of the fallacies. That's a stupid comment and I didn't prep that right. I don't even know what that means, but it's like it is interesting to understand how fallacies play in our lives for better or for worse, and I do like that. There are slight little good things about some of these things that we fuck up supposedly. You know what I mean. So, uh, yeah, I'm just really excited to uh get everyone's thoughts and responses and sassy, anytime you can make it up, uh awesome. But we can always drop comments and ask questions. I can already see uh sparky asking hey, what, what are your thoughts? So I'm sure Sassy has some really great thoughts on this. So feel free to just listen in and there's never any pressure to even give your thoughts either. So this is a great one. That's kind of my thoughts so far.
Speaker 2:I want to get to the end of this book and have a good grasp on who I can recommend this to, because for me it's a healthy read, a really healthy read. I don't know if it would be very healthy for my mom, for example. I don't want to crush some of her dreams this late in life. I don't know it's just like you know what I mean want to crush some of her dreams this late in life. I don't know, it's just like you know what I mean. Like that's a maybe a complete fallacy type of thinking in and of itself. But like that type of thinking I'm I'm already and I'd love to do that.
Speaker 2:I love to recommend books to people and uh, it kind of is a thought in the back of my head whenever I'm reading anything is like Ooh, who, who would like this? And oh, so-and-so will like this, this, this one is still a big question as to, uh, who I'll directly like recommend it to, but that that might not even be a question at the end of the book. I'm hoping it's just like boom, solid one, regardless of chapters, dot dot, dot. Like I recommend this to people because of simple answer. I hope it's that, but maybe it's a little too mean, and that's my big. What if, at the beginning of this, this uh journey with this book is like Ooh, is he a little too harsh sometimes? But for me that's good for my mom, maybe not for my daughter, maybe not like I don't know. That's kind of my thinking with this.
Speaker 1:I think, I think parents can surprise you to some degree.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you know, yeah, you're right.
Speaker 1:Actually, I think, like my mom, she's a mom right. So she wants to love her kids, she wants to care for both her kids, whatever, care for both her kids, whatever. But she's come to a point in her life where she started to realize certain things about my brother and, uh, kind of the the, the way that he is. And you know, there was there was a time where I would try and say stuff to my mom about it, because my parents were the brunt of of his bullshit for years, but they just kind of accepted it to some degree because they wanted to see their grandkids. Um, and in recent years my mom started to realize the reality of it and start to change and and realize that it's it's not going to get any better, it's never going to change. And so she started to change and, um, you know not that she, I don't know, it's hard to explain Um, but another scenario would be like my, my, my mom's mom was always a devout Catholic and um, she, she lived that lifestyle, devout Catholic.
Speaker 1:And um, she, she lived that lifestyle for years. And um, you know, you don't, you don't have kids out of wedlock, you don't? Um, there's like so many aspects of, of things that she was very against because of her religion and in her later years just didn't give a shit about that stuff anymore. Like it just becomes completely and I guess to some degree it depends on how indoctrinated you are into those, um, those fallacies that you're in, whatever, whatever fallacy that you're indoctrinated into now that that I'm saying that you know a belief of any kind is is wrong. But, um, if you've become so indoctrinated that it rules your life and your existence and your uh, your whole kind of demeanor is based upon that, then to some degree you're you're indoctrinated into that fallacy and you're not going to get out of it. And whether that fallacy is a positive point of your life or not, it still is a fallacy to some degree.
Speaker 1:Again, I feel like people are going to take the word fallacy as a negative connotation, but it's not necessarily in the right terms. Religion is a belief system in itself, that each religion is different and each person's entitled to their beliefs. But again, at the end of the day, that's your belief, that's your life. It doesn't necessarily work for everybody else. So trying to push that on other people and stuff like that, again it's all fallacy-based.
Speaker 1:Everything is just based on fallacy so you can believe what you want, and that's healthy, that's fine because that helps you get through the day. But it still ends up being a bit of a fallacy and my point is you'd be surprised at how people will change based off of that. They'll let certain things go and just not care about others, and the growth that people can have to some degree is quite astronomical. But on the other hand, some people won't change at all. I mean, lane, you got out of the indoctrination that you were stuck in for years and then you started to see the other side of it, and your mind was essentially fucking blown when you started to see the other side of things. Sorry.
Speaker 2:I'm talking for you, no, and I love that process now. It's devastating at first. It can hurt so bad and it can wreck your life, wreck your life. But I think if you can come out of indoctrination healthy, it can be so empowering and it can be so rewarding. And I don't know, I really think that there's like this, just pressure on you with, with feeling the need to be perfect and uh, again, this isn't even like religion. This can come down to tick tock. You know what I mean. Like this, these types of thoughts can really we're talking religion, but we could talk about tick tock any ideology and makeup ads, Right, and we could.
Speaker 2:We could talk. We could talk soccer cleats, for heaven's sake, and the pressure that it puts on a soccer player that is sponsored by a certain brand, or I don't know. You could talk about anything, and it's like I love the idea of going to my kids and being able to say like, hey, you remember, uh, such and such fallacy. Well, let me, let me I've got the book here in front of me. I say such and such. You remember the uh, swimmer's body illusion? That's a bad one, Cause we, we both kind of didn't like that one. But you remember the social proof fallacy that we read about? Well, I know that it says such and such and's the truth. But like, let's break the rule here a little bit, let's fall into the fun and let's go have a fun time at the game tonight and watch how social proof can actually be kind of a fun thing. Or maybe that's the shit. Was that the wrong fallacy?
Speaker 2:No, to some degree you could kind of like convince a kid maybe a kid that isn't excited to go to a game with you and they kind of are struggling with just letting loose and kind of having a good time and you see they're struggling with grades or they need to relax. It's like yo, let's go break some fallacies tonight. I don't know, that's such a funny, weird way to think.
Speaker 2:But, like also with good decisions, it's like hey, I know I taught you this for so many years, but come to think of it, I think that advice I gave you was breaking fallacy time and time again. Let's rework that. That's kind of where my mind goes a lot with this, because at the end of the day, you do want to take these things and help the world and I guess as a parent you kind of not only have the responsibility, slash obligation, but you do get to kind of test them and teach them and see if they work and see if they kind of produce more happiness. At the end of the day. He does mention that that, like, do these self-help books produce more happiness? Are they just confirmation bias? Are they a result of, like, the winners being the ones that statistically write the books? Of course the losers that follow these rules, that are unhappy, aren't going to write the book. So I don't know. Like shit. Now I lost my train of thought. This book does that to me. Oh, I like it.
Speaker 1:I think the purpose, I think the purpose of this book ends up being that it's not there to tell you not to do these fallacies in any way. It's to show you that these fallacies exist and give you the ability to think clearly. Am I doing this fallacy? Yes, am I doing it for a good reason?
Speaker 1:yeah okay, whatever, like you have to, then that that's part of the critical thinking stuff, like the whole title of the book is the art of thinking clearly, and using these fallacies to be able to think clearly and understand why you're doing something and why you're not doing something gives you that ability. It's not about looking at these fallacies and avoiding them, it's acknowledging their existence. It's like okay, so again, I've talked about my brother on many occasions and I'm bringing it up for this one point, and this one point only, is the fact that it's a negative part of my life and I don't let it ruin my life. I acknowledge its existence, I acknowledge the bullshit that I've been through with him over over the timeframe and I can talk about it. No problem, it doesn't affect me in a negative way when I talk about it. It just is. You know it's, it exists, it is what it is, and I think that's kind of like.
Speaker 1:The same kind of point is you need to be able to to acknowledge these fallacies existence, acknowledge that they might be bad in some aspects, but in other aspects they're good. Uh, when you're using them for specific things, if it's, you know, using them to harm someone, fuck, you're an idiot. But, uh, if they're, if you're using them to have a good time, like the sunk cost fallacy um, you know, you're, you, you're like, I've sunk cost into this thing. It's a fallacy, but you're having a good time. So who gives a fuck? Like like you know, ignore it. Um, or the like you said with the, the social proof um, you know, everyone's jumping on the bandwagon of the current team. That's even. It's even if it's not your team. Everyone's jumping on the bandwagon of the current team. That's even if it's not your team. They're jumping on it because they're the ones in the finals. Well, you're jumping on it because you want to support a team. It might not be your team, but it's the one that you want to see win. And it's not necessarily a bad thing. It's not hurting you in any way, unless you're spending, you know, hundreds of thousands of dollars on a ticket. I would say that's a little bit excessive in my own opinion.
Speaker 1:But there's so many aspects of these fallacies that to some degree, it's not about following them to the letter, and that's, I think, especially when he's saying that about the self-help books, he's not trying to indoctrinate you into a way of thinking. He's trying to help you think clearer or think clearly, and that's where giving these tools and, especially in the beginning, saying that you know this isn't a complete list. They will change, they will grow, there will be more. It's depends on who's doing the research and how many they find. But at the end of the day, these are things that I'm listing so that you are aware of them and that's all we can really hope for.
Speaker 1:You know, I go on my rants about facts and stuff like that and that's just my own personal beliefs on things and you know, to some degree they're real. But if those facts are ruining your view on things, then you know, as long as it's not harming someone else or it's not trying to force someone else to believe your way of thinking, and it helps your way of thinking, ignore those facts for all, I care, like it doesn't hurt my life. Um, I'm just telling you my side of things and it's my. You know human, uh, I wouldn't say human right, but it's my. You know human, uh, I wouldn't say human right, but it's my, my human existence that allows me the opportunity to do that and I think everyone, again, from my own opinion, I think everyone has a right to voice their opinion, whether you don't agree with it or not. Again that becomes your opinion and you don't have the right to say that their opinion is wrong. It's just that we're uh, we're voicing our opinions, having a discussion. I've been, I've been watching a lot of the charlie kirk videos on youtube and a lot of people don't like him because he's controversial, but I think he has a great message and behind a lot of the stuff that he says is, even if you don't agree with somebody having a conversation and talking about a subject, despite your viewpoints on it, whether they're they're opposite or whatever.
Speaker 1:That's where society grows is having those conversations. And he's even said in one of his his videos that we fall into violence and fall into civil war and things like that when we stop having these conversations. He says that most marriages break down because they stop communicating, they stop having conversations, and we have to keep this stuff up and having these conversations. Whether you say something that I don't agree with and I say something you don't agree with, at the end of the day we're still having a conversation about it and we're not at each other's throat. We're just having a discussion over our opinions on things. So I don't know. That's my take on that stuff.
Speaker 2:I think it's a great take. I think it's a healthy take. It's like what the world needs type take. I think it's a healthy take. It's like what the world needs type take. And you think about even people at odds that can get through a conversation, still be at odds, still have difference of opinion, but be able to look at each other and say thanks for letting me know where you're at. Now at least I understand. Maybe next time, uh, we can both give you know what. We both had some thought, uh, had to say some thought and maybe it'll, maybe it'll change our minds, maybe not, but do you want to do it again? You know that type of I don't know. That's really really easier said than done. That's almost impossible. Maybe that's why world peace won't ever happen, because human nature it's so hard to do that. But it's a beautiful thought man.
Speaker 2:The difficult conversations that this type of book can produce can produce, I think, beautiful results if you can get through them. That's where it's really hard. I think that's where it's really hard with yourself. Really, what we're talking about, sparky of conversations between two people, is almost the graduated step of being able to have that conversation with yourself first, because that's really where the fallacy is born, anyways, is we can't even get past having that conversation with ourselves. It's not even agreeing or disagreeing. It's like we refuse to acknowledge that the conversation needs to be had. So you just, you ignore it almost and you continue on in your patterns, and so I think this is so healthy, even the swimmer's body, really.
Speaker 2:That's the one that I felt kind of like don't tell me, I can't sumo wrestle. You know what I mean? It's like Lane bro, you're not going to ever be able to sumo wrestle. I completely agree with him. But at the same time it's like man, I do like that Tim Ferriss guy. He's like yeah, you want to do something, just go do it. Yeah, you want to do something, just go do it.
Speaker 2:I went and competed in some grappling over in China and took first place because I learned the rules and I cheated the system kind of. But yeah, you can do it, you can do anything. And it's like I kind of like that wild, but at the same time it's just like no, I completely agree, I will never be a sumo wrestler. I need to come to grips with that. And you know he has a good point. But at the same time, there is, and there always will be, a percentage of people that will blow the odds out of the water. They will defy all expectations and they will someone like me be able to put on that kind of body and become a sumo wrestler. And it's like the percentage, the chances, though. You know what I mean survivorship bias yeah, bro, I love it.
Speaker 2:I I really think this is uh, I hope I can like learn this book. Well, that that's my goal also is I've already gone through how many principles and how many have already forgotten. Like I almost kind of want to jot down each one of these fallacies on a note card and learn them really well, almost as if I were learning a language. Just like authority bias what is that? What was the example? Oh, that's right. Availability bias which one was that?
Speaker 2:Like I don't know, these will be really healthy, I think, not to win arguments, not to. I mean, there is that you know what I mean. But like not to prove myself right against anyone or I don't know. I just want to be aware of what I'm fucking up with my own decisions on a day-to-day basis. That's who I have to live with really at at the end of the day is me and my decisions. I'd like to be able to day-to-day not—I feel like if I have this list better memorized and well-acquainted, I could kind of catch myself in the decision-making day-to-day without thinking about it so much. I think if I put in a little work with these fallacies, it'll pay off. That's what I'm saying. I think it's really good stuff. And again, with the book, specifically with the author, I'm hoping I like him and like the book. But yeah, kind of too early to say at this point.
Speaker 1:I think and this goes to kind of what we were talking about with the just the contents of the book and like how many things we're touching on on each week and whatever I think that this is something that almost needs to be its own, like separate space to some degree, like a critical thinking space or something along those lines, because even once you're done this book I mean, like you said, we could literally go through each chapter in a day in one space, but at the end of it it's like even with this book being done, there was two other books that we had on our voting system that you know we could read those as well and see what their take on things is, and there's so many other books out there that were in those lists that I sent you and just across the board for critical thinking, that it's one of those things that just this book alone, I think, is not going to give enough information and we we honestly like we could talk about this stuff forever and it would just, it would just eat up too much time, like we could keep going tonight for another three hours on on all this stuff because we really didn't dive into one of the the fallacies in depth. So it's, it's one of those things that, like it's, it's tough to be like, okay, we're doing this in eight spaces or whatever, and doing the whole book, and then we're done and we're moving on to the next book. And then you're like, but wait, like did we really learn enough from going over this? Should we actually go through? So it's, it's, it's a weird thing. Like it almost feels like it should be. It's its own space on its own time frame. Not that I'm trying to suggest that we do that. I'm just saying in general that that feels like what it should be.
Speaker 1:And then we tackle a proper book on a book time space. But it's just because there's so much stuff, with it being so little, there's so much stuff to discuss and go over. It's fucked, like I'm. I'm just like I sent you a message with all the fallacies listed, um, but I'm literally scrolling through them right now and looking at them and I'm like groupthink is one of them and and that's again that ties in with the social uh proof and um, and then there's linking bias and you don't even need to fucking read the chapter to understand what it basically is by the title, but I mean reading the chapter goes into more back in here.
Speaker 2:Or remember like memes you've seen or posts like you yeah, you will recognize a lot of these just right off the titles, you're right yeah, and it's.
Speaker 1:It's tough because, like, like we said at the beginning, we're we're trying to tackle almost too much in one space and it feels like it deserves more because of what the topic is, especially you saying that it's something that you feel like would help benefit you more and help benefit your family more. In that sense, it's like, yeah, it almost feels like it should be an ongoing educational space or something Like. It's weird to say that and obviously we don't have the time to do that as fathers and whatever, but it's just. You know, it was just something that I was thinking when we were discussing it. It's like this feels like it should be more.
Speaker 2:I don't know, you're really right, even if, uh, take first example if someone did a podcast, a daily podcast, they, they could do each principle, each fallacy three times a year and think of all the content just off of off of confirmation bias alone that that's thousands of episodes of content, of special guests, of somebody that escaped a cult, of somebody that went through an abusive relationship, all of the different pieces crap. I just chose the most terrible examples off the top of my head. I'm sorry, but trading, it could go into sports card trading, into, uh, gambling, it could go. It like all all the content, it's joe rogan on steroids with a specific purpose, right like it's like, yeah, it is a good like welcome to the art of thinking. Clearly show like this guy should do a podcast and he could just use this book over and over and over and over again. I, I think you're right, that's really a powerful show that should be number one subscribed content that the world like aims to fix things is let's just, what are we doing wrong? Let's do it better.
Speaker 2:Man, that that's a really good point and it's kind of good like review status for this book. It's like, man, you're gonna like this book so much and try talking about it. It's hours worth of great conversation. You. It's impossible to read just a few and not have a few hours of conversation off of it. It's like it is that type of book. I think everyone should read it. Two thumbs up we're not even through with that, but really just the, even if it was shit content and he's still kind of giving the same principles, like I think it's. People need to have these conversations at least and be told about this stuff and be aware of the fallacies that do exist and if they're, you know, non-believers in the fallacy doctrine, it's just like, well, at least be aware that they exist, right, like even if you're not a believer in this.
Speaker 2:I think it would be a disservice to yourself if you didn't know this big ass list of fallacies that the human beings, on a day-to-day basis, make, and you could be like, well, I don't believe it, why, I just don't, so you're just not going to read the book. No, I don't want to read the book. You should at least still read the book. Be aware of what you don't believe in. At least that, right, I don't know. That's also a tough thing for someone that is indoctrinated to escape. It's also a tough thing for someone that is indoctrinated to escape because they are told time and time again to not dive into content that will disagree and there's pressure to heavy pressure to not dabble in anything that will. So yeah, we've got bad actors at play also, but this book tells you like question people.
Speaker 3:Like ask yourself what's the?
Speaker 2:reason, and there's really good chapters in here that I don't know. I'm also biased. I have my life story. I've got my own chapters. So, yeah, this is good, though for me. Own chapters that uh. So yeah, this is good, though for me I need to. I need to weigh everything and and uh analyze.
Speaker 1:Like he says, look in the mirror and even coming from your own, your own side of things, like we've touched on what you've been through with your, your family, past and and you know the stuff that you got out of and the stuff that you were essentially indoctrinated into by your own perspective, your own opinion. But again, in the end of the day, that could also be a fallacy in itself of you, like you're feeding your own biases based off of the experiences that you've had.
Speaker 2:And as much as it is, I love that.
Speaker 1:But like, yeah, again, like as much as it is, your experiences, as he's talking about, he's, his experiences, are what has fed this list and you know, my experiences have fed my perspective on things as well. Those are your experiences and those fed your opinion on that sort of stuff. But the fallacies that, as long as you can acknowledge the fallacies that you see, even in your own thinking, in your own way of life, can help. Again, it's part of thinking clearly, it's not saying that you are wrong or you are right. It's saying that these things exist and that's how you're living your existence, based off of these, these fallacies, um, because to some degree someone had to pull you out of the, the fire, essentially. But even that person pulling you out of the fire may have indoctrinated you into their own way of thinking or their own lifestyles or that sort of thing, and it's just a way of human existence. You're going to fall into some grouping at some point based off of your beliefs in one thing or another, and it just it winds up being a fallacy and as again, as negative as that sounds, it's still a fallacy because you're following that thing based off of what this person said or what that person said or whatever. So it's not necessarily that you are again, like I said, wrong. It's just acknowledging that for ourselves. We have to acknowledge that we can be wrong and we have to accept that we can be wrong and we fall into a big problem where people don't want to be wrong. And the second that you, even if you are wrong with things, you say the second that you say someone is wrong, their back gets up against the wall and you're the enemy, and that's the type of thinking that I think he's trying to get people away from is you need to accept that you're going to be wrong in situations in your life and your opinion is, even though you live your life this specific way or whatever, they aren't and your opinion isn't going to matter to them. So you need to accept that and acknowledge that. And I and again that's that's where my mindset's coming from is is like a society we need to grow in. Doing this sort of stuff and reading this sort of stuff is accepting that what someone else is saying may not be my life choice, my way of living, but I need to accept that. That it's not wrong, but it's also not right, because it's not right for me it's it's. It's not wrong for them, but it's not right for me, and that's that's where we need to get that mentality and move forward as a society.
Speaker 1:Because you talk about world peace and the problem with world peace is everybody's trying to force other people to do things their way. In our world. It doesn't matter what government, what religion, whatever People are, always trying to force other people to do things the way that they want, and it doesn't work. That's where the conflict ends up, arising Even from people who claim to be marginalized or claim to be persecuted in some way at some point come to a point where they feel like their way of living is more important and they need to force it on other people. So it just perpetuates what they've been going through. And again, it's not to negate the marginalization that those people might've gone through, but now they're perpetuating what people did to them and they don't see it.
Speaker 1:And it's it's like it's controversial, as we could get on everything and I could go down so many rabbit holes with what I'm saying. I'm trying to make it as broad as a statement as possible because it fits so many different things in today's society. You can't just narrow it down to one, it fits literally every aspect. I'd say one of the worst ones that it would fit would be fucking Scientology, but that's my opinion on Scientology. Fucking scientology, but that's my opinion on scientology.
Speaker 1:Um, but you know, like there's so many other things that that's this stuff kind of fits into where people are trying to force other people to follow their way of life because they think their way of life is the only right way of life. And look at history we had one person who tried to do that. Actually we've had several, but one person, famously, who tried to do that in hitler and he killed a bunch of people trying to do that, and we all acknowledge that he was wrong. But people still try to do it on a day-to-day basis, maybe not to the same degree, but they're still trying to force people to live how they think you should live. And just let people live their life how they want to live their life. And live your life how you want to live your life, as long as it's not harming people and it's not, you know, violent in any way. Um, we don't need to fight about this stuff. And again, I could rant forever on this shit.
Speaker 2:I love it, bro. This was this was a really, really good Sunday discussion. Hyped me up on life, to be honest, and on the book also. For anyone that is, I know this sounds like a super weird thing to say for all of our listeners, but we do have some people that listen to the recorded podcast episodes, podcast uh episodes. So if you are listening to this and you don't have the book and you're like man, what the hell are they even talking about?
Speaker 2:Cause Sparky's, right, we have a whole list here of fallacies that we didn't really even get a chance to dive into, because it's really hard, believe me, if you read these first 50 pages and then like, take the mic and like what do you want to talk about? There's a lot of good stuff here and a lot of the mic and like, what do you want to talk about? There's a lot of good stuff here and a lot of good examples and life lessons that you kind of want to dive into and and it's hard to pinpoint with with one chapter at a time. It could, it could be possible, but I just want to read the list of actual fallacies. It's really uh for anyone listening right now or on the recording, uh, just before you do just quickly.
Speaker 1:but before you do just quickly, there's probably like four or five of the fallacies in this list that he's going to read off that we haven't even talked about, Because I just went through them and looked at them.
Speaker 2:So yeah, that's how many there are.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's a lot and if you take just one of these, like, for example, the first one, survivorship bias just take that, google it. It's a well-known fallacy. This is not his content. Like he said, he's taking a list of well-known fallacies and just look it up and I kind of want to do the same thing and just see what other resources and other people have to say about these things. But I just want to read through them and do that, pick one of these and read about it and it's fun. These fallacies are great Survivorship bias, swimmer's body illusion, clustering illusion, social proof, sunk cost fallacy, reciprocity, confirmation bias, authority bias. I loved that chapter, by the way. That's a good one. You guys, we didn't even talk about it or that one.
Speaker 2:I have to say one thing about authority bias. Bro, Did that story about the people electrocuting people to death not mess with you? That was crazy.
Speaker 1:I mean, that's one of the ones that I skimmed through, so I didn't really read through it.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, it's basically saying, like people were told, okay, you gotta push the button, no matter how much the person doesn't want to be electrocuted. It's for the study, it's for the survey yeah even it was for a damn survey, bro.
Speaker 2:People were like electrocuting people to death, like at levels of what? Death electrocution, where it happens, but they were paid actors not really getting electrocuted, but people were pushing the damn button, bro, because of authority. Yeah, yeah, oh my gosh, that one messed with me. Contract effect uh, availability bias it'll get worse before it gets better. Fallacy, story bias, hindsight bias, overconfidence effect, chauffeur knowledge and illusion of control. So those 17 were the ones that we read. It's a big old list of really short chapters, but they really pack a punch and I think you're really missing out if you don't at least become aware of these fallacies and what they are. Hey.
Speaker 3:Ivan, how's it going? Oh, we lost him.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so like, like I said, we like we didn't touch on a lot of these ones and um or not a lot, but some of these ones, and again, we could keep going on this stuff, but it's just, it's. It's such an interesting topic and I feel like so many people could benefit from stuff like this, because just looking at some of the stuff you see posted on social media or posted on youtube, like the stupidity that you hear coming out of some people's mouth, uh just is astronomical and some of it just winds up being regurgitated stuff that they're repeating from someone else, um, kind of like a chauffeur bias or a chauffeur um intelligence or whatever to some degree, but it's just, it's such a uh, a shit storm out there because you're, you're listening to stuff and like like an example of what I'm trying to say is like, so there's, there was this, there was this ad sort of thing, the sponsors for YouTube channels and for some of these big YouTube channels that are out there, um, there was a sponsor that was, um, basically contacting these big YouTube channels and giving them, uh, a set of knives, knives, these these supposedly very fancy knives that supposed michelin star chefs have used, and whatever, and it was a scam. It was like these are, these knives are fake knives, they're garbage knives. They're actually made with like crappy steel. They're, uh, mass produced in in china, but it says they were made in Japan, hand handmade in Japan or whatever.
Speaker 1:Um and like there's there's so many comments in the comment section about how shitty these knives are, but these like and I'm talking like big YouTubers, I'm talking like, uh, like Ben Shapiro and his group of people Um, they're like some, some other people that they they didn't do their research on it, um, because there was a lot of information out there and they don't know any better. They're just, you know, they're getting paid or whatever by this company to promote this thing and they just, on face value, think it's great, um, and and, like I said, it's, it's stupid shit that's being perpetuated without any actual knowledge behind it and it just becomes a fallacy. That falls into the list and it's it's that stuff times, times a million. It just happens on a day-to-day basis out there and this stuff is something that I feel like more people could benefit from, and as much as I. You know, who am I to try and educate the world on this shit? I'm a nobody, that nobody's really going to listen to outside of our circle. But at the end of the day.
Speaker 2:it's great information that a lot of people could learn from man. I agree of people could learn from man. I agree I'm gonna have a hard time, uh, not wanting to like have dad moments with my kids with this book. Oh my gosh, it's really loading me up with some dad stuff. I'm just like, hey, let me teach you about I'm such a dad. Oh, oh my gosh, so I got to cool it. The book does help me feel like I've got a better grasp on figuring out stuff.
Speaker 2:Dealing with FOMO. This book can really help you decipher whether or not you should be fearful of missing out on something or not. Right, it's like a lot of situations in our lives that we just put all this pressure on ourselves. It's like yo just understand the laws of life and what you're doing, what your mind's doing, what you're doing to yourself, what you're allowing other external factors to do to you. I don't know. It's really good to be aware. I tell that to my kids all the time be aware of your surroundings, and this book is like that exactly. It's like be aware of your surroundings, be aware of your mind and what it does and what surroundings will do to it, and be careful you can get yourself into trouble by just making some simple mistakes that a lot of people do. Don't worry, don't feel bad, but like it's normal Everybody does you can kind of escape it if you want to. I don't know, it's such a good approach to parenting, for me at least.
Speaker 1:I think the biggest one that any parent could utilize is number four. It's social proof. Just if 50 million people say something foolish, it doesn't make it any less foolish, and that's something that every kid needs to learn. Think for yourself. Don't follow what the crowd is doing. Do your own thing, be your own person. And that's the biggest one that anyone could take away. And and that's the that's the biggest one that anyone could take away. But as a parent, that's that's living my life and and you know, because I've always wanted to be a father, that was like my biggest thing growing up. That was the one thing that I wanted to do as a father was to help my son be like me in the essence of thinking for himself. Not that I want him to follow in my footsteps for the stuff that I do. I want him to be his own person and think for himself. You know exactly what number four?
Speaker 1:Number four is the one that I try to strive the most is, you know, don't follow the crowd. Think for yourself and make your own decisions. If it somehow follows the crowd, it's because you chose something in that aspect that you liked, but it's not because the crowd is doing it. It's because you wanted to do it. For whatever reasoning, it still is somewhat social proof to some degree. But at the end of the day, if you can kind of justify it with logical reasoning instead of some sort of bullshit because everyone else says the same anecdotal crap, then at least you have a good enough reason to follow something. But the majority of the things that I try to do is you know, don't follow the sheep, follow the herd. Try to to make your own decisions based on the information that's provided. So, and a lot of the times it kind of sits along the line, it toes on either side of the line and you don't necessarily fall in this group or that group.
Speaker 1:Even in high school I was never in a specific group. I've kind of floated amongst everybody because, you know, I didn't want to follow this crowd or that crowd and that just wound up being me as a person. Did I make a lot of friends? Not really, because I didn't stick to one group per se. Do I have a lot of friends in my life today? No, not. And again, because I don't follow crowds, I don't. Anyways, my point is, you know, that's the one that I think, as a parent, you could teach your kid the most beneficially, because it's it'll help them in the long run to think for themselves and not follow the crowd. Anyways, we, I, we should wrap up, because fucking we'll keep going forever on this shit.
Speaker 2:Well, I I certainly have enjoyed it, my friend, and let's, let's keep it rocking next week. And another 50 pages and we'll we'll do our best to to cover a lot of these in the time we have. It's a lot of fun to read through this, guys. So I can't again. I really highly recommend, if you're not diving into this book, just start with Googling fallacies and logistical fallacies and logical fallacies and you'll have an eye-opening experience.
Speaker 2:If you've never had the chance to just kind of read through a list of them, there's tons of them and I'm pretty sure any resource that you kind of dive into it'll probably point you to a list of other fallacies and you can start to dive into it that way. Probably point you to a list of other fallacies and you can start to dive into it that way. I bet there's great books. Like Sparky said, there's like three or four on our list alone that we voted on and got to this one. So I think it's a lot of fun and I'm excited for next week. So, ryan, I've kept you quiet this whole time. Again, I apologize. Do you have any lovely words to wrap the space up for us tonight?
Speaker 3:Shoot. No, my brain's wandering all over the place. It's starting to think about a bunch of crap. It was fallacy crap, not crap, excuse me, fallacy stuff. But yeah, definitely stay focused and hit this book hard man. This is definitely kind of interesting topics. I'm going to get into it a little more. Actually, I like that idea, what you suggested, looking some stuff up. I got that in my little notepad here. So, yeah, I'm looking forward to next week. But everybody, have a great week. It's Monday. We're back at the start of the weekend. I hope everybody had a great.
Speaker 3:Easter. So yeah, it's just about there. Maybe I'll have another kid start of the weekend. I hope everybody had a great Easter. It's just about there. Maybe I'll have another kid.
Speaker 2:I don't know, don't believe anything.
Speaker 3:I got some good ones. I'm going to be pulling off tomorrow. Oh boy, I've going to be pulling off tomorrow. Oh boy, oh boy. I've got to remember. We'll see who we get.
Speaker 2:My kids are going to probably try to trick me and I'm going to forget. In the morning they're going to pull some prank and I'm going to be like, oh damn it, april fools, you guys got me that's right.
Speaker 3:You got to act extra surprised.
Speaker 2:Keep this on my mind. Yeah, now on my mind, now that I think about it. Good reminder Kept me safe. I got to check the toilet in the morning, check the faucet, make sure all the pranks, the April Fool's pranks Maybe they don't know any of those classics. Maybe I'm okay. You guys have a great night. Thanks a lot. This was fun.
Speaker 2:This was one of my favorite spaces in terms of just, I had a hard time like knowing what, what I wanted to talk about. That's a good, I don't know. I liked that. That's a powerful little batch of reading we did and it was a great kind of review, so to speak, for this, this book, and for the first 50 pages it's like, oh, we can't talk about it. You guys have to read this.
Speaker 2:You know, in terms of promoting this book, I don't know. Really, you should go read them. They're good. We can't talk about it all. It's's going to make your mind spin and question, and if it doesn't, that's okay. But for me it did, and I guess that's my review. I like to think, I like to question, I like to be challenged. So far, this book is right on point and I also like his little dips of humor here and there. So so far, so good. I'm excited for the next batch, so we'll do another 50 pages and meet up next Sunday and you guys have a wonderful week. And congrats to any winners. I've got some tickets here I'm going to be hopping into yeah, exciting. And the poker winners congrats. Thanks, guys, for all your participation. Much love to you guys and have a wonderful night and a wonderful week. All your participation. Much love to you guys and have a wonderful night and a wonderful week. Good night you guys.